Welcome to Joy Lab!: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast, where we help you uncover and foster your most joyful self. Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of soulful and scientifically sound tools to spark your joy, even when it feels dark. When you're ready to experiment with more joy, combine this podcast with the full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
Hello, I am Henry Emmons and welcome back to Joy Lab.
Aimee: And I am Aimee Prasek. So, today we are talking about our Element of Hope, which is often thought of as having some kind of positive anticipation or belief about the future. I think hope and its most effective expression is more about the present moment actually, and the resulting actions. So that's, that's kind of the sneak peek of, of how we'll journey today. [00:01:00] So the first thing I want to bring up is this tendency I think many of us have, which is to think that hope is just something that lives in our heads. just in our thoughts. Maybe we think we have it or we don't. But either way, there's this tendency to see it as just something that kind of stays in the realm of thoughts, oftentimes. Like, I hope I get a new job. I have hope that this new treatment will work. But hope is really a dynamic cognitive and biological process. It goes beyond our thoughts to really inform how we perceive the state that we're in and the future of both our inner and outer world. And most importantly, hope informs the actions we take. Or the choice of inaction. So the first important thing for us to understand about hope is that it lives takes shape outside of our thoughts. And if it [00:02:00] doesn't, it's pretty much just wishful thinking.
Henry: So something you just said, Aimee reminds me of our short description of the essence of mindfulness. Here it is again, three things. See what is, accept what is, and choose wisely. So,
Henry: I would put this discussion of hope based on your intro squarely into the category of choosing wisely.
Henry: Yeah. And here's why I think that.
Henry: You know, in, in a recent episode, we, we talked about neuroplasticity and how the brain is wired for change, but we also talked about homeostasis, which in a sense is the brain's resistance to change, right? So it's just like you said, Aimee, there's this dynamic process that's going on all the time, like a push [00:03:00] and a pull.
Henry: Will I change or won't I? And if I do change, will it be in the direction I want it to be? Will it be towards more wellbeing, more joy, or will it go in the opposite direction? So what I believe is that evolving toward joy in that direction we want doesn't happen just because we want to. Just because we hold some vague notion in our head that,
Henry: "I hope I get better." I believe it is built on a constant series of these small choices, these little kind of micro decisions that we are faced with all day, every day, and how wisely we can make those choices. So, here's an example of how I think this is a biological process. This [00:04:00] thing we're calling Hope so this is a bit of a stretch maybe, but bear with me 'cause I think it kind of fits. So most folks are already familiar with serotonin, the brain chemical that we often associate with a positive mood. And after the huge success of serotonin drugs like Prozac and Zoloft, you know, some 30 years ago when they came out, there has been this belief that still pretty prevalent today, that depression occurs when serotonin levels are low.
Henry: And if you boost serotonin with a medication like Prozac, then most people feel better. But that theory that depression is caused by serotonin depletion has largely been debunked, or at least it's not it's not held to be true in the [00:05:00] way that we once thought it was. The truth really is that we don't know exactly.
Henry: Yeah, even now we don't know exactly what causes depression and we don't even know exactly what serotonin does. We believe it's involved with the experience of pain and pleasure, and it certainly seems to have some effect on mood. But how, how does it impact mood? So just recently this, there was an article in
Henry: the journal, Nature, which is a very, a very prestigious journal among scientific circles, and I think it's shed some light on this. So as I read this article, the researchers were trying to understand the role that serotonin plays, and by doing this, they looked at these areas of the brain that are considered to be really rich in serotonin and what they found is that they are activated, [00:06:00] these serotonin rich areas are activated when, when we experience a reward, something positive, something that we, we feel is a reward. Not only that, but these areas where, especially activated if the reward is unexpected. So if it's sort of a surprise to us. So, their interpretation, this is going back to the researchers,
Henry: their interpretation is that serotonin helps us with decision making with exactly these tiny day-to-day decisions that might lead us to some future reward.
Henry: Yeah. And, and I think that might lead us eventually to a better, more joyful life. So, serotonin apparently helps us make these decisions by creating a sort of biological code, by placing [00:07:00] value on future rewards.
Henry: Not immediate gratification, but future rewards. So here, I'm gonna quote the, the author for a moment here. This is how they put it. "Your brain needs to compute the expected value of the actions you contemplate and undertake as you interact with a changing world asking, what's the value of this decision versus that decision in that particular environment?
Henry: That's a hard problem." And he's right. That is a hard problem.
Aimee: Yeah.
Henry: And then quoting the them again. "So what we think serotonin actually does in the brain is encode the expected value of a particular environment or course of actions in order to ultimately guide everyday decisions.
Aimee: that's [00:08:00] such an interesting interpretation of hope or of serotonin. But I think that's how I see hope actually. So when we're open to it, it can help us compute value, just like in that research, and then make a decision that supports us. I'll just say as well, there's further on your point of these kind of like day-to-day decisions. There is no shortage of studies that have found that hope or that having a more hopeful attitude or perspective is beneficial for health outcomes. Um, inflammation, cardiovascular events, strokes, like pretty much everything. More hope, better health outcomes. I think the quick assessment is that hope itself is like the key variable. It's the thing, the way of thinking, just thinking that causes those better health outcomes.
Henry: Mm-hmm.
Aimee: And I just don't think that's the case. I think it's more about [00:09:00] decisions we make, just like we're talking about today, the actions that we take when we are fueled by a more hopeful belief structure. Because it is just such a powerful motivating force.
Aimee: Hope is. And it's so much more, I think this is important, so much more effective than fear as a motivating force.
Henry: Hmm.
Aimee: Fear fueled motivation is reactive.
Henry: Yeah.
Aimee: It's disempowered. It just keeps us cycling in the state of like base level distress.
Henry: Yeah. It's more about what we think we need to avoid. It's more about fear is more about avoidance rather than going towards something that we think will give us some good.
Henry: I. Absolutely and approach related behaviors, like you're saying right there, this ability to go toward is, is like key for motivation, key for positive health outcomes, that ability to [00:10:00] approach and be open to, so you can see how hope fuels that. And so I think we actually really, you know, we really crave hope because of course we wanna feel motivated, we wanna achieve our goals, but even more than that, we crave a motivation that offers a reward and a why to inspire us into action that is approach related that I'm going toward something rather than running away from it. And when we take action from that space, I mean, you can just see how like the empowered movement of forward, like I am moving forward towards something we are telling our system that this effort matters. It is progressing me. Um, it can help me to to survive just on that basic level, but also thrive. And that is our wiring for hope. I like the late psychologist, Rick Snyder's, definition of hope. He said,
Aimee: "hope is the perceived capability to derive pathways to desired [00:11:00] goals and motivate oneself via agency thinking to use those pathways." It sounds really dry when I say it out loud, but I think he's saying, this is how, this is what kind of why I like this definition that we need to first be open to and see hope that approach related, expression, we then need to practice a kind of flexibility of thinking to create some new paths on how to get there, and then we need to walk those paths with the belief that it can make a difference, that we can make a difference.
Aimee: Because we can.
Henry: mm-hmm. You know, Aimee, I think this conversation is so timely.
Aimee: Yes.
Henry: You know, it seems to me as though collectively we're living in a season of despair right now. Or, or if not despair, at least high levels of stress and uncertainty.
Aimee: And fear.
Henry: And [00:12:00] fear. Yeah. As I listen to the larger conversation we're having in our nation right now, sometimes it's more of a shouting match than a conversation, but it is so easy to see that fear has risen up.
Aimee: Yeah.
Henry: And, and how many of us right now are just being buffeted by these forces that seem so much larger than us. It's as if the, the solid ground that we usually stand on is shaking.
Henry: And, Hmm.
Henry: and I hear this, some version of this from almost every patient that I talk to and every, even every friend that I talk with, it's just a very, very challenging time.
Henry: And I think that when fear sets in like this, there's almost an automatic kind of equal reaction. There's a yearning for hope.
Aimee: Yeah.
Henry: As though it might somehow balance the scales, you know? [00:13:00] But we need so much more than platitudes. So much more than pie in the sky wishing that things would change. So I just really like the way that you kind of frame this in this conversation we're having today.
Henry: Taking hope from a mere thought to something more solid, you know, more of a, a whole person possibility.
Henry: It's not just in the mind, it's body, mind, heart, and soul.
Henry: And though we haven't talked very much about this today, it's not just in us as separate individuals either. Hope lives and grows in community in connection.
Aimee: Yeah, that's our social wiring for hope. I think, and that's a good point. We like, we know deep down that we wanna be, well then the "big we", our global community needs to be well. It's just like survival knowledge. [00:14:00] It's what Darwin found survival of the kindest
Henry: Mm.
Aimee: That was his true finding. It wasn't survival of the fittest.
Henry: Really,
Aimee: That was.. Yes, I...
Henry: I like that.
Aimee (2): We've talked about, we've, I think we talked about this a while back. I'll find it. It was, I believe Herbert Spencer that sort of warped his writings into this idea of survival of the fittest.
Aimee: Um, And it reminds me also of a, like maybe a remixed biblical story that a nun told me.
Henry: Hmm.
Aimee: This was in grad school. I had a professor who was a nun.
Aimee: She was brilliant. And I'm not Catholic, but I nearly joined the convent after having class with her. She was so cool. Um,
Henry: That's funny. I almost joined a monastery at one point too.
Aimee: Good. Were you married at the time
Henry: too?
Henry: No, I wasn't..
Aimee: Okay. It would've been easier. I was married at the time, so I was like, uh, Charlie's like, no, I don't think you should join the convent. Here I am, still [00:15:00] married. No convent life. Uh, but anyway, so she was sharing the story of the seven loaves and few fishes. I think it's in Matthew. So as the story is told, about 4,000 folks had gathered to be healed and listened to the teachings of Jesus, and they were gathered for three days without food. And as Jesus was leaving, he wanted to feed the crowd so they wouldn't leave hungry and the story is that, I believe, the disciples had among them seven loaves of bread and a few small fish, which my first question is why they didn't offer those food up earlier. They're like, oh, Jesus, I didn't know anybody else wanted to eat.
Aimee: As they're eating behind the tent. But nonetheless. So, Jesus takes the food and breaks it into these baskets, and had folks pass it around to eat. And everyone, as the story [00:16:00] goes, everyone ate and was filled and they even had leftovers. So, the first thought is, this is a story of how Jesus like magically multiplied the food.
Aimee: Right? Um, but as the nun shared with us. What if the true lesson, or even what happened was that the entire group shared? So folks just took what they needed in that moment with even hope that the community would work together to find more food as they needed later on, and they shared the food so that everyone in that moment would be nourished. I think that's hope.
Henry: I think that's also a miracle.
Aimee: Exactly, yes, exactly.
Henry: Either way, it's a miracle.
Aimee: Right. And that we can perform those miracles. Um, that it wasn't just magic, but that we are part of that process of creating miracles and, and that's our wiring. And I think that's what hope, [00:17:00] maybe that hope is this like miracle motivator is intended to motivate us into actions that nourish us and those around us because we all do better.
Henry: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I, what I'm taking from this, Aimee, is that yes, we are wired for positive change and hope lives in our brains as kind of this built- in means to guide our decision making. And especially these little day-to-day choices that gradually add up to a more joyful life.
Aimee: Yeah.
Henry: In a sense, I think all that we really need to do is get out of the way. And allow this, this biological pull to draw us along.
Henry: And that just reminds me just, I just recently started listening [00:18:00] to the Tao Te Ching
Aimee: oh.
Henry: Again, a book, you know, I've read probably many times over the years, but Audible is my friend these days and so I was listening to it and you know, the premise of it, I love being reminded of this is the, this concept of Wu Wei, which I th I think means doing, not doing.
Henry: In other words, it's effortless action, it's allowing ourselves to align with the flow of our biology, our inner wisdom. You know, that I think is the biology of hope.
Aimee: Yeah, biology of Hope. I love that. And effortless action. Just to my heart right now. So let's move from [00:19:00] that flow. So, I hope you're feeling a spark of hope. If your hope tank has felt dry, folks, you're not alone. We are a community craving hope and I think the message here is that we can create it, because it's in us, all of us. So to close our time, I guess I'm on like a Catholic wisdom streak here for today's episode, although you brought in the Tao Te Ching.
Henry: It's good.
Aimee: We've got everything happening. But I wanna offer two quotes from the late Pope Francis. I think he communicated hope as a verb, in some really important ways, and also the essence of joy. So here they are: "If we want security, let us give security. If we want life, let us give life. If we want opportunities, let us provide opportunities. The yardstick we use for others will be the yardstick, which time will use for us." [00:20:00] And the last one: "Joy adapts and changes, but it always endures even as a flicker of light born of our personal certainty that when everything is said and done, we are infinitely loved."
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