Welcome to Joy Lab!: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast, where we help you uncover and foster your most joyful self. Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of soulful and scientifically sound tools to spark your joy, even when it feels dark. When you're ready to experiment with more joy, combine this podcast with the full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
Hello, I am Henry Emmons and welcome back to Joy Lab.
Henry: And
Aimee Prasek: I am Aimee Prasek. we are finishing our Month of Awe. Ah, tear. I am loving this Month of Awe.
Henry: Yeah, me too.
Aimee Prasek: Yeah, we're digging into authenticity. I hope you all have really enjoyed it. It's not a total series, but it kind of is. So if you haven't listened to the last episodes, last four episodes, um, before this, I'd encourage you to head back there now or after this one if you're really kind of digging into what we're talking about now.
Aimee Prasek: So [00:01:00] today we are talking about this last strategy that Henry calls the Still Small Voice Awakening With Soulfulness. So Henry, do you wanna start us off?
Henry: Sure. So just, uh, to bring everyone up to speed. This is the third of our paths to true self paths, to awakening. And it is my personal favorite, as you probably know, Aimee.
Aimee Prasek: Yep.
Henry: The first was the path of suffering or sorrows or hardship, path of loss. The most common. We think. The second was the path of joy or path of bliss.
Henry: Being drawn to what you love, to what enlivens you. And this is really the, the path of soulfulness of, you know, really turning inward and essentially [00:02:00] establishing a relationship, having a conversation with your soul, with your own inner voice, which is sometimes called the still, small voice. I love this in part because there's still a sense of mystery around it.
Henry: You know, I just, I think we need more mystery and magic in our lives and... yeah. And I mean that's part of why Soulfulness is one of our four pillars in, in the whole construction of Joy Lab, because we love it and it lends itself to that ongoing appreciation of mystery and depth and so forth.
Aimee Prasek: Yeah.
Henry: So, I know that it can be a little problematic to talk about these things.
Henry: You know, there's maybe, because there's mystery around it, it can be interpreted in so many different ways, and probably not [00:03:00] everyone buys into the notion that we have a soul or that it's, you know, that it's a real thing. I don't have any question about that, but I'm gonna turn to Mary Oliver to kind of support me on this.
Henry: So the great poet Mary Oliver, who is just was writing about soul, constantly had this to say, "this is the first wildest and wisest thing I know that the soul exists and it is built entirely out of attention."
Henry: It's hard to read that and not be inspired, at least it is for me. I just love that. And that's just, you know, a line of a longer poem and truly, her poetry is constantly speaking to this, the value of [00:04:00] attention and building a sacred connection with the earth and with ourselves around that attention. And so according to, to her, and I think there's just a lot of wisdom in this,
Henry: all that's really required here is that we turn our attention inward, and that we learn to listen deeply. So I've talked before about my connection with Parker Palmer, the writer and speaker and just kind of a, a thought leader in this area. And he has a beautiful way of conceptualizing the soul that I just want to try to paraphrase here.
Henry: He says that the soul is a lot like an animal in the wild. So think about a, a fox or a wolf maybe or something, a bear, [00:05:00] something deep, in the forests. And so if you want to encounter it, if you're wanting to develop a relationship with this aspect of soul, you cannot do it by crashing through the woods.
Henry: You can't make a ton of noise, you know, being distracted, stumbling around. You've got to learn to be quiet, to be still, and you've got to learn to listen to it.
Aimee Prasek: Mm.
Henry: But there's the thing, I believe it is speaking to us all the time, and yet. It's very possible for us to ignore it.
Aimee Prasek: Yeah.
Henry: right?
Aimee Prasek: Oh my gosh.
Henry: We can ignore it for years.
Henry: Yes. We can ignore it for our whole lives, which is kind of back to that thing we said in an earlier episode. We can, we can choose to fail at becoming fully ourselves. And I think this is one way we do [00:06:00] that by refusing to listen to the messages from our inner voice.
Aimee Prasek: Yeah.
Henry: I did that myself for years. Probably I'm gonna, I'm gonna count all my years of and medical training and my first eight years of outside of medical training.
Henry: So that's a total of 16 years.
Aimee Prasek: Mm
Henry: Where I was not listening to what my inner voice was saying about vocation.
Aimee Prasek: mm.
Henry: And I'll admit part of it was that after all that time and effort and money and kind of finally kinda getting to some position of respect and a secure income. I just didn't wanna throw that all away.
Henry: And that is really one of the, one of the ways that we refuse to listen, because it might be asking for change from us for, from a kind of change that part of us [00:07:00] just doesn't want to make. And I know people have this in other areas of their lives, not wanting to leave a relationship, not wanting to move, not wanting to do this or that because of what we fear we're going to lose.
Henry: And I'm not saying that this voice is always telling us to do things we don't want to do, but sometimes it does because of what's really best for us.
Aimee Prasek: Hmm.
Henry: So in my experience, the voice just got louder and more insistent. Eventually it started to speak not just through these kind of urges and longings and feelings, but my body started to break down and then it gets to be harder to ignore.
Aimee Prasek: Yeah.
Henry: And again, I am not saying that all illness is caused by refusing to listen to this voice, but I think some, sometimes it is, and the, the body is just part and parcel of our whole [00:08:00] being, and of course it's going to be affected if we have this dissension within us. That we're, we're simply failing to, to really listen to.
Aimee Prasek: Yeah. I think also you really nailed it, Henry, it can be hard to listen to that wisdom sometimes or to let it speak up or even discern when it's really our wisdom coming up and not our insecurities or our fear or ego. For example, sometimes our mind is just full of self-criticism and judgment, and those are like predators. I think for that still, small voice. They will eat it for lunch. So, it won't rise up in that environment if we're bombarded by that judgment, the self-criticism, there's just no space for that still, small voice. And maybe another predator I just wanna call out is sort of coming into the search for self with a transactional [00:09:00] intention.
Aimee Prasek: Lemme try to explain what I mean here. You know, we're looking to hear our inner voice as long as we get something good out of it, right? And usually something that satisfies our external power rather than our authentic power or soul or joy. And Henry, you said this topic is one of your favorites. I totally agree.
Aimee Prasek: It is also one of mine, but it also brings up for me something that I love, which is my fascination for cults. And I wanna just bring this into the conversation.
Henry: Please do. This I've got to hear.
Aimee Prasek: For a moment. Hear me out folks. I hope this will be helpful. Nearly every cult all conflicting each other in their beliefs, right, yet all of them claim that the voice of God has instructed their actions. Super interesting to me, and I think if you haven't been in a cult, I haven't... yet. It's hard to imagine that a smart person could get sucked in. [00:10:00] But I think we have all fallen into this trap when we're having trouble accessing our deep wisdom, our authenticity, then it is so tempting to get sucked into a person or practice or group or movement, whatever, to get sucked into a way of thinking or acting because we're confidently told that they've heard the voice. They've done the work for us. Don't worry, we've got you. We can access our deep wisdom so you don't have to. And that can be, huh? That can feel good when it's really hard to tap into that for ourselves. Like we might not even think we're equipped to do it, or we've been told that we're not equipped to do it, we outsource our wisdom. But, expletive, I would say a swear word, but then we'd have to put an E here. So, but expletive, we are equipped for this, right? [00:11:00] Like can hear our inner voice. It can just be hard. And we may not feel like we know what to listen to or listen for, or what to filter out. But we have this ability, every single one of us. So Henry, do you wanna get more into that? Like, listening to your soul. What To look out for. What to dismiss.
Henry: Yes. And I, I just really like your, your example of outsourcing our wisdom and, and the example of a cult is such a clear one. That's super helpful. I had no idea that that it, it was, that's where you're going with that, but it's.
Aimee Prasek: I just get drawn into the cult conversation, but it's a big one here, I think, when you're claiming the voice of God.
Henry: But you know, there, as I'm thinking about it, there are so many ways that we outsource our wisdom. And uh, you know, that's a good example 'cause it's maybe so extreme [00:12:00] and clear, but I think there are like, gurus or
Aimee Prasek: absolutely
Henry: teachers or books that, that tell us what we should be thinking or doing or a parent or a, a friend, or any kind of religious group or, I mean, there's just lots of ways and we, I'm not saying we don't need inputs. I think we do need, we do need other input. However, I am going on record saying that it is really worthwhile to learn how to have a relationship with this inner voice with this deeper part of yourself that I'm calling the soul, that I believe is our connection with that which is greater than ourselves, a sacred presence, you know, of, of some sort. and I believe that it gives us access to this inner wisdom, this deep knowing of what's really good and right for us
Henry: when we're being our true selves. So [00:13:00] how do we do that? That's kind of your, your question. I'll just share, share my experience through this. And honestly, a lot of this I learned through my working with, with Parker Palmer and the Center for Courage and Renewal and the what's called courage work, which we've talked about before.
Henry: But I'd like to, I've come to think of this as, as though you're trying to develop a deep friendship with someone that that's kind of quiet and unassuming that you don't yet know very well. So what does it take to do that? If you really decide, I want this relationship, you've really gotta put in the time, don't you?
Henry: You've gotta spend time together. There's just no substitute for that. So that means learning to, to be still, and listen and go inward. And then I think that what you will find the language of this kind of [00:14:00] shy and unassuming friend is the language of longing, of yearning, of being pulled very gently towards something.
Henry: It's not generally gonna hit you over the head with it. Although I think it eventually did for me with, with vocation, but more of the time it's just a very, like a soft, gentle breeze through the trees that you just need to be able to, to learn to attend to. I also think that it uses the language of the heart rather than the language of the mind.
Henry: And so reading a book about this, unless it's a very poetic kind of book, probably not gonna really help you that much. It, it comes through, language of the heart to me is story, poetry, music. Story is such a great [00:15:00] way
Aimee Prasek: Hmm.
Henry: to get there because it gets around our thinking mind. You were referencing this, Aimee, that the obstacle, really, one of the big obstacles is that we think too much and we judge and we, you know, so it's a way of getting around the, the e ego mind, let's call it. And then.
Henry: This language is also deeply personal. So everyone has their own inner language, which is a little different from everyone else's, but it is always there. And if you really learn to relate to it, you will realize it has always been there throughout your whole life. It never leaves. It it's never abandoned you.
Henry: It is always there. You just have to turn your attention to it and be still and listen. [00:16:00] So how do we listen? We set the intention to do that. We're doing this very much on purpose, which also means setting aside some time and space where it is quiet and uninterrupted. It's a little bit like meditation, but not exactly the same thing.
Henry: 'Cause we're really move going into this quiet state in order to have a conversation, if you will. And so stillness, I think nature is a great way to bring us in. I have talked about my spot up north, near the boundary waters where I can be completely alone and I'll tell you, it's just the perfect conduit to me it's like a, a sacred vortex that you hear about in, in, uh, in Arizona, but it's, that's my little vortex, if you will. And then you start to notice what's going on with your inner landscape, your [00:17:00] emotions, the physical sensations, your dreams, your, your longings, and you will know. That you're conversing with this authentic voice because it is always 100% supportive, positive, completely non-judging.
Henry: This is the epitome of self-acceptance and self-compassion, and it is always drawing us toward goodness, toward a higher version of ourselves. It always has our best interest at heart. And you know, honestly, if, if, if we go with our best interests, it will always align with the best interest of others. It is not, there's not a selfish, greedy aspect to this in the least because it's the language of abundance.
Henry: It's not the language of scarcity. There's no win-lose or lose lose. [00:18:00] It is also the, the essence of a longing for connection to be loved and to love in return. Those are some of the things to look for that I think tell us that we're really having an authentic conversation with this beautiful, beautiful part of ourselves that has probably been ignored for most of our lives, but it's still there waiting and willing to engage with us.
Aimee Prasek: That's really helpful. Those are the also 101 for keeping you out of a cult, right? Maybe. Yeah. Always loving. It's always bringing you to a higher version of yourself. I can't help but have a Tom Haverford quote from Parks and Recreation where he says, "I always encourage people to take the high road so there's more room for me on the low road." That is not what we're doing here. We are all working on this. We are all [00:19:00] trying to work on that high road as a community. There is this, like, I know, I love that quote. There is just this deep connected nature too that we're all working on when you tap into that, voice, like you tap into that connection, I think. Like, that's that craving too, that deep sense of connection where all of the perceived dysfunctions and or perceived screw ups, all that stuff fades away. And we feel that love within ourselves and beyond ourselves. The other thing I, I think is really helpful, I wanna call out that I liked, Henry, to sort of come into this conversation as you're talking with a quiet friend because I, I have a hard time with small talk so if there's somebody that isn't helping me with small talk on the other side of the conversation, I feel [00:20:00] very anxious and awkward. And I think that's how it can feel at first when you're trying to do this
Henry: Mm-hmm.
Aimee Prasek: Like it can feel very sort of awkward and uncomfortable. But then it does start to more comfortable as you get accustomed to that that type of listening. So I think that's really helpful.
Henry: Yeah, thanks.
Aimee Prasek: Yeah, this is such a great series on authenticity or kind of a series on authenticity. I really enjoyed it.
Aimee Prasek: I hope you all enjoyed it as well, getting into this stuff. Uh I feel like we got into a lot and then just also touch the surface. So let us know if you've found these helpful, these episodes helpful, they resonated with you. And maybe, what you wanna get into a little bit more.
Aimee Prasek: If you have some questions, just comment in the podcast app you're listening to or YouTube and we'll see it. [00:21:00] Next episode, we're gonna start a new element of joy and I'll wait until next episode to tell you about it.
Henry: What?
Aimee Prasek: I know. So to close us today, let's hear some wisdom from Rumi on accessing our still, small voice.
Aimee Prasek: "Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about."
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