271. Going Beyond Yourself: How Humility Fights Loneliness, Builds Connection, & Protects Mental Health
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[00:00:05] Henry Emmons, MD: Hello, I'm Henry Emmons, and welcome back to Joy Lab.
[00:00:10] Aimee Prasek, PhD: And I'm Aimee Prasek. We are in our Element of Humility, and we're exploring going beyond ourselves. We're followinghumility researcher Dr. Daryl Van — Von? No, Van — Dr. Daryl Van Tongeren's framework here, with the idea that humility includes knowing ourselves, checking ourselves, and going beyond ourselves. [We] talked about those first two in the last Episodes. And so maybe you're seeing the pathway here, 'cause I think it can help to go in order: working to know yourself, which helps you to check your ego, which then helps you to turn toward others. I really think this aspect of Humility is so important. I think it's ignored, perhaps — this understanding that, actually, humility really is a shared experience. It's relational. Absolutely, true humility makes us feel better. We've said that. But humility does not happen in isolation, even though the drama plays out in our heads. Because if we know ourselves, we check ourselves, we go beyond ourselves — if we are working on Humility, then we will keep our eyes more up, and our heart more open, toward those around us and to ourselves. And so Humility really serves as a foundation for genuine empathy and connection. And the research on wellbeing is very clear that connection, empathy, [and] belonging are some of the strongest predictors of better mental health outcomes.
[00:01:47] Henry Emmons, MD: You know, this helps me realize Humility — the practice of genuine Humility is like so many of the other Elements that we talk about in Joy Lab, in the sense that the end goal is really to open ourselves up more, to be more big-hearted, more open-hearted; to be able to connect more deeply with others. You know, it's just really all about that. It's about learning to love well.
[00:02:25] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah. Yeah. Good insight!
[00:02:28] Henry Emmons, MD: I hadn't quite pieced that together until you were just talking about it, but...
[00:02:33] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Well, it took us three years to get there, but I think that's fair. Absolutely.
[00:02:38] Henry Emmons, MD: Hahaha. Well, we have humility about that.
[00:02:42] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Haha. That's so true though, Henry. Absolutely. You know, maybe we've unconsciously followed that pattern too. Through every Episode, the arc is that same sort of track through self-acceptance and knowledge, and a little bit of checking ourselves, the obstacles, and then connection. Yeah...
[00:03:02] Henry Emmons, MD: Yeah, I think ultimately that's what it's all about.
[00:03:06] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Right? Haha. Well, that's the purpose life, folks. So, thanks for joining us for Joy Lab, and we're done.
[00:03:11] Henry Emmons, MD: Hahaha. Yeah. So this is where humility, I think, really shows its power, because all that inner work — knowing yourself, checking your ego — it's all a preparation for this: for being able to show up for other people with an open heart and clear eyes. Because empathy is not just something that's nice to have. It is essential for mental health, both yours and others. So when you can genuinely see another person, not just as a reflection of you, not as someone who simply agrees or disagrees with you, but as a whole human being with their own big inner world — when you can see that, something changes; something shifts. You become less isolated. The walls that we build up come down. You know, you remember you're part of something larger. I think this is partly why loneliness, we're learning, is so damaging to mental health. It's not just a lack of people around you. It is the experience of being cut off, separate, unable to make genuine connections. It's a sense of alienation, really, and Humility — this capacity to go beyond yourself and truly see others for who they are, is the antidote to that.
[00:04:51] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Hmm. I'm just, like, really hanging on what you said, Henry — that when we can genuinely see someone else, not as a reflection of us, not as somebody who disagrees or agrees with us, but like a whole human, and how that enriches us. See beyond ourselves — what an opportunity for connection. Otherwise, we just, like, keep multiplying ourselves everywhere, and how irritating is that? I don't want more of me in the same room.
Anyway, I'm guessing all of us can maybe think of somebody in our lives who lives this — who is really humble, and kinda demonstrates this kind of going beyond oneself, in a healthy way. And how do you feel when you're with that person? I think that's something to really pay attention to. Like, look to those people and notice how you feel. Somebody who sees you, they want your input, they value what you have to share.
That's what Humility does. When we approach others with humility, we become safer to be around. It opens the door to empathy, as you said, we can see others without so much junk clouding our vision. And all that creates more safety in our relationships, and safety is like the number one thing we need in so many ways. It's much of, you know, how we're wired — how we're wired to move; what we're motivated by. But it's also a kind of doorway that allows us to grow, to tap into purpose and meaning in our lives, and to build stronger links and trust in relationships, in communities, and workplaces. And yes, you might practice Humility, going beyond yourself, and get burned by someone — by some narcissistic, self-aggrandizing person. But what's the alternative, you know? To live in a traffic circle, defensively looping around for your entire life? It's just not worth it. I'd rather be burned by someone and feel worthy, and whole, and humble, than live in that circle day after day.
And it's not easy to do, but it is really simple. Not easy, but simple. It's a kind of epistemic humility — living out the idea that I am not all-knowing and all-powerful, and neither are you. Neither of us. And I don't fully know what your experience is like, and you don't fully know mine either. And that doesn't diminish my worth or yours. It's actually what can connect us and strengthen us as a community.
So, going beyond ourselves is peak humility. It's built on the knowing ourselves and the checking ourselves. We see our strengths and limitations. We right-size ourselves. We recognize we might be wrong. We recognize we might see the world through a cultural lens. And we make space for others to do the same. We make space for differences, and we recognize that there is mystery — like, being human is not just one thing.
[00:08:11] Henry Emmons, MD: Hmm. Yeah, I want to try to expand on what you just said about — I think you pronounced it epi-steem-ic humility.
[00:08:22] Aimee Prasek, PhD: I, you know, I don't know, philosophers —
[00:08:24] Henry Emmons, MD: I don't know where you come up with these terms,
[00:08:27] Aimee Prasek, PhD: I thought you Oh, I thought you were gonna critique my pronunciation.
[00:08:30] Henry Emmons, MD: I don't know how to pronounce — don't even — but here's what I understood about what you were saying.
[00:08:37] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:08:38] Henry Emmons, MD: That this is the recognition that your understanding of reality is always partial. It's always filtered through your particular vantage point at any given moment. So you see through your own lens, which is shaped by a whole bunch of things: your upbringing, your culture, your experiences, your temperament, and what's going on at this point in your life. And here's what's both humbling and I think freeing. So does everybody else. This means that the person who disagrees with you isn't necessarily wrong, or stupid, or misguided. They just might be seeing something you can't see from the vantage point where you are standing. Their experience is real, even if it's different from yours. And this doesn't mean all perspectives are equally true or that there are no facts. It just means that truth is larger than any one person's grasp of it. We each see part of the elephant, to use that old metaphor, and we need each other's perspectives to get closer to that whole picture of what's actually going on.
I think when you really take this in — that other people's experiences exceed your understanding of them — it changes how you show up in relationship with them, because you can become more curious, like, you're more willing to listen. You might understand something a little differently. And you're less certain that you have the right answer. And then, paradoxically, it makes you feel more connected to them, not less. Because, as you were saying, Aimee, people feel seen by you, and that's really what we all want. We want to be truly seen by others for who we are.
[00:10:46] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah. [To quote] William James, "The deepest principle in human nature is the craving to be appreciated."
[00:10:52] Henry Emmons, MD: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:53] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah, to be seen, to be appreciated. All this circling, it kind of comes down to that. We want connection, and belonging, and to be seen, and appreciated.
So how can we do this? Build up this aspect of humility, of going beyond ourselves? One strategy is listening. Just listening, as a humility practice. Like really listening, and not formulating your response, not thinking about what you're gonna say next, which is what I do. Asking questions as an act of genuine interest and not performance. Like, really listening. We did an Episode on Listening that I'm gonna link in the show notes. I'll pop it in for those of you in the Program, and those of you not in the Program, it'll be in the show notes. [It's] super helpful, like, really getting into this type of deep, empathic, active listening that is powerful.
The other strategy is seeing the innocence of others and holding loosely this mystery of another person because as you said, Henry, they will always exceed your understanding of them. So seeing the innocence in others — this is something, Henry, you taught me. Certainly [it's] been something powerful in my life. So I'm not gonna talk about it anymore. I'm just gonna pass the mic to you and ask that you tell everybody about it. Haha. I mean, we talk about it in the Program, but you're just way more eloquent about it. So will you talk about this, please?
[00:12:36] Henry Emmons, MD: Aw, well... I will, but let me first share a quote that I just came across by Thich Nhat Hanh, which I think is such a beautiful, short description of how to really listen to others — you know, somebody who's maybe struggling with something, a friend or a loved one — it's just so beautiful. He said, "Listen until they empty their hearts."
[00:13:06] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Hmm.
[00:13:06] Henry Emmons, MD: It's just, you know — get everything out. Just allow that without interruption, without commenting, or trying to make suggestions, or fix, or share our own stories. Just...just let them empty their heart. Oh, I just thought that was beautiful.
[00:13:27] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah. Yes. That's...that's it. Thank you.
[00:13:28] Henry Emmons, MD: Yeah. So, let me try to talk about what you were referring to — seeing the innocence in others. This is a practice that's really, really been helpful for me, and I use it in my work with clients; I use it in my life just generally because I believe — and I really do believe this after, you know, working with people for over 30 years, I believe it even more than I used to — most people are doing the best that they can, with whatever they have, at any given moment. People are not trying to be difficult, or hurtful, or wrong. They're trying to navigate life with the tools that they have been given; the understanding that they have; the wounds that they're carrying. And when you can see that — when you can hold the awareness that this person before you is just trying to make it through, just like you are, just like I am — something in you softens. There's no need for irritation. There's no need for judgment. It just kind of quiets down.
So that doesn't mean you have to allow for harmful behavior from another. Boundaries are still important. You don't have to become a doormat to people. But you can hold boundaries and still recognize the person's fundamental humanity. There's a phrase I find helpful that [goes], "they're doing the best they can with what they know right now." Even if their best isn't really great at that moment, even if it hurts you in that moment, they're still trying. So holding that awareness, that's humility. It's going beyond yourself to see the person in front of you, not as an obstacle or just an annoyance, but as another human being stumbling through this difficult, beautiful life just like you are.
[00:15:41] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah. We are all trying the best that we can. That's like, hard wisdom to hold, but it's the wisdom I'd want somebody to hold when they see me messing up, 'cause darn it, I'm trying my best too. So yeah, it is a freeing perspective to take too.
Well, if you're in the Program, we've got a wonderful Experiment for you. So head over there after this Episode as we work on this — going beyond ourselves, and these connection-building practices.
And I'll leave us with some wisdom from Rumi. This is what he wrote: "You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the entire ocean in a drop."
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