285. Why Doing Enough Is Enough + Why Perfectionism Predicts Burnout, Depression, & Anxiety, Not Performance

September 09, 2026

Do you feel like you have to prove your worth through the shear amount of work you do or prove your value by making sure you're seen as busy, always hustling, and super productive? Do you feel burned out, overwhelmed with work, or simply feeling that you're just doing too much? If so, this is the "doing enough" episode, and we hope you come away acknowledging that you're wired to do enough (often more than enough) and that the pressure to do more is something we layer on top of that natural wiring, and it is likely more harmful than good.

We'll dig into perfectionism and how it can push us into doing too much and its association with anxiety and depression. We'll also explore more of the burnout research and how perfectionism and the myth of productivity are related to burnout. Importantly, we'll talk about some practical strategies to help you identify what might be driving you to do too much and how you can soften your expectations. Additionally, feeling burned out and overwhelmed with work can have less to do with the amount of work you're doing and more to do with the lack of support from your employer and other key factors related to burnout. This is that canary in the coal mine phenomenon. If you can relate to that, we also have some strategies to consider.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

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Sources and Notes for Our Element of Enoughness:

Related Joy Lab Episodes:
- Ep. 223: Breaking Free From Pathological Productivity
- Ep. 206: Time Poverty & Busyness: Too Busy to Be Well
- Ep. 201: Balance Perfectionism & Do-Too-Muchism
Bellam, S., Curran, T., Hill, A. P., & Stoeber, J. (2025). Perfectionism and work performance: A meta-analysis. https://doi.org/10.1111/joop.12570
Carver, C. S., Lawrence, J. W., & Scheier, M. F. (1999). Self-discrepancies and affect: Incorporating the role of feared selves. https://doi.org/10.1177/0146167299025007002
Crocker, J., & Park, L. E. (2004). The costly pursuit of self-esteem. https://doi.org/10.1037/0033-2909.131.3.392
Crocker, J., & Park, L. E. (2004). Reaping the benefits of pursuing self-esteem without the costs? Reply to Schmuck and Sheldon (2004), Sheldon et al. (2004), Pyszczynski et al. (2004), and Kernis (2004). https://doi.org/10.1037/0033-2909.130.3.430
Crocker, J., Karpinski, A., Quinn, D. M., & Chase, S. K. (2003). When grades determine self-worth: Consequences of contingent self-worth for male and female engineering and psychology majors. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.85.3.507
Crocker, J., & Wolfe, C. T. (2001). Contingencies of self-worth. https://doi.org/10.1037/0033-295X.108.3.593
Deci, E. L., & Ryan, R. M. (2004). Avoiding death or engaging life as accounts of meaning and culture: Comment on Pyszczynski et al. (2004). https://doi.org/10.1037/0033-2909.130.3.473
Freudenberger, H. J. (1974). Staff burn-out. Journal of Social Issues, 30(1), 159–165. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1540-4560.1974.tb00706.x
Harari, D., Swider, B. W., Bujold Steed, L., & Breidenthal, A. P. (2018). Is perfect good? A meta-analysis of perfectionism in the workplace. https://doi.org/10.1037/apl0000324
Hewitt, P. L., & Flett, G. L. (1991). Perfectionism in the self and social contexts: Conceptualization, assessment, and association with psychopathology. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.60.3.456
Higgins, E. T. (1987). Self-discrepancy: A theory relating self and affect. https://doi.org/10.1037/0033-295X.94.3.319
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Kernis, M. H. (2005). Measuring self-esteem in context: The importance of stability of self-esteem in psychological functioning. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1467-6494.2005.00359.x
Kirkpatrick, L. A., & Ellis, B. J. (2001). An evolutionary-psychological approach to self-esteem: Multiple domains and multiple functions. In G. J. O. Fletcher & M. S. Clark (Eds.), Blackwell handbook of social psychology: Interpersonal processes (pp. 411–436). Blackwell.
Leary, M. R. (2000). Sociometer theory and the pursuit of relational value: Getting to the root of self-esteem. https://doi.org/10.1080/14792772043000045
Maslach, C. (1981). The measurement of experienced burnout. https://doi.org/10.1002/job.4030020205
Park, L. E., & Crocker, J. (2005). Attachment styles and contingencies of self-worth. https://doi.org/10.1177/0146167205277030
Pyszczynski, T., Greenberg, J., Solomon, S., Arndt, J., & Schimel, J. (2004). Why do people need self-esteem? https://doi.org/10.1037/0033-2909.130.3.435
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Tricia Hersey's website
Lynn Twist's Book: The Soul of Money

Questions this episode was made for:

Q: Why do I feel guilty or anxious when I'm not being productive, even when I know I need a break?

A: We are naturally wired to engage and do, and then we layer on extra expectations, perfectionism, and the belief that our worth is tied to visible busyness. It's essential to first bring awareness to what's driving us to do more than enough. This episode offers strategies for that mindful awareness and ways to come back into more balance.

Q: Is burnout really just about working too many hours, or is there something deeper going on?

A: Dr. Christina Maslach's six-factor burnout model shows that most of what drives burnout has nothing to do with logged hours. Lack of control, insufficient rewards, breakdown of community, absence of fairness, and value conflicts are additional factors. This episode explains how we have to look at the big picture (rather than just blaming ourselves) to create real change.

Key moments:

[00:00] Welcome — Enoughness Ep 3: doing enough

[00:30] The two-week vacation thought experiment: what comes up in your body when you imagine truly stepping away?

[01:00] Itching to check email just in case, guilt about doing nothing, loss without a to-do list — all very normal, and worth examining

[01:30] We are already wired to do enough — the pressure to do more is something we layer on top of that natural drive

[02:00] We attach our doing to our worth, and to what others can see: always busy, always achieving, always on

[03:00] Henry: email changed everything — from 9-to-5 availability to always-on; the inbox that empties for 10 minutes and then refills

[04:30] Text messaging took it further — the expected response speed keeps accelerating. The result: a state of constant alertness, constantly scanning for something important, hard to resist the impulse to check

[05:30] We've trained ourselves to react immediately to the relentless drumbeat of more — mindfulness emphasizes being over doing, but there's so much pulling against it

[06:30] 150 years ago, news took weeks to cross the country by horse, ship, or foot — always-on is entirely new territory for our nervous systems. We apologize for a three-day email delay — when it would have taken six weeks round-trip to even get the apology back

[07:30] Recap of Hewitt and Flett's three perfectionism types; self-oriented perfectionism connects most directly to "doing enough"

[08:00] Even self-oriented perfectionism doesn't operate in a vacuum — we write stories about how others are judging our response times

[09:30] Henry: perfectionism usually starts in childhood — good report card means a parent is proud; fitting in becomes the price of admission to belonging; We internalize: "I am worthy if I accomplish enough; if I perform well enough; if I don't fail"

[10:30] Perfectionism is a losing game because the standard always moves — there's always another rung on the ladder

[11:00] Did high achievers get there because of perfectionism? The evidence says they likely got there in spite of it

[11:30] 2018 meta-analysis: "Is Perfect Good?" — teases apart excellence-seeking vs. failure-avoiding perfectionism

[12:00] Excellence-seeking: weak, inconsistent relationship with performance — small effect with many disclaimers

[12:30] Failure-avoiding: did not predict improvements in performance; 2025 Bellam et al. meta-analysis: overall relationship inconclusive

[13:00] What perfectionism does predict: moderate-to-large associations with anxiety, depression, and burnout

[13:30] You can strive for greatness, have high expectations, work really hard — and that is very different from believing your worth is at stake if you don't hit perfect

[14:00] Henry: perfectionism predicts suffering, not performance — reviewing your work at midnight for the third time out of terror is not diligence; it's hurting yourself

[14:30] Aimee: doing enough is enough — this is not about shirking responsibility; personal drive and responsibility can exist without perfectionism

[15:30] Dr. Christina Maslach's six factors of burnout: work overload, lack of control, insufficient rewards, breakdown of community, absence of fairness, value conflicts

[16:00] Most of burnout has nothing to do with logged hours — the other five factors point to things much deeper

[16:30] The canary-in-a-coal-mine analogy: if the bird stops singing, it's not because the bird isn't resilient enough; it's a sign something is wrong with the mine

[17:00] We are the canaries — and we need to ask: what is happening in the mine? Does it ignore the conditions and just tell you to fly faster?

[17:30] The most toxic mines are built from feelings of not being enough — and some of those mines were built for us and we're expected to fly in them anyway

[18:30] Henry: the canary doesn't belong in a coal mine; we've built a toxic personal mine where worth is entirely dependent on what we produce or achieve

[19:00] The solution isn't to make yourself stronger or tougher — it's to change the mine, or get out of it

[19:30] Psychological detachment: Sonnentag and Fritz research — people who mentally detach during off-hours report less exhaustion and more energy the next day

[20:00] Being physically home but mentally rehearsing tomorrow's problems means you don't get restored the same way — the Experiment will work with this

[20:30] Rest is your right and your biological need — in a culture of side hustles, grindsets, and constant optimization, it is essential

[21:00] Tricia Hersey, "The Nap Bishop": "Rest is resistance" — it's what will fight some of those toxic mines

[21:30] Henry: choosing to rest is choosing to say "my worth isn't measured by what I produce; I'm enough even when I'm doing nothing"

[21:45] "Sometimes I sits and think, and sometimes I just sits" — sometimes putting it in simple terms is exactly what's needed

[22:00] Head to JoyLab.coach to access the Experiments — this week's works on psychological detachment and sitting

[22:30] Closing wisdom from Tricia Hersey: "Rest is not a reward or luxury reserved for those who make a certain amount of money. Rest is a right. Rest is our divine right, and no capitalist agenda can have access to it."

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:05] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Hello, I'm Henry Emmons, and welcome back to Joy Lab.

And I'm Aimee Prasek. We are in our Element of Enoughness, and we're talking about doing enough, today.

So let's just tap into this right now, okay? Imagine for a moment that your boss told you, "Okay, take two weeks off. Everything is handled. We know exactly what was on your plate. We know what you were doing; what needs to be done. We'll take care of it. Just take two weeks off and enjoy." I'm, like, getting a little anxious right now even thinking about that, so I'm curious — maybe tune into your body; What are you feeling?

All right. So, bam, you leave. You just literally spin out the door, and head home, or log off your computer. How do you feel those first few days? Itching to check your emails, just in case? Worrying that someone is gonna drop the ball on something? Or thinking that your other supervisor might think you're just taking two weeks off without any notice, being lazy or something?

Maybe you're at a loss of what to do with that empty time, or you feel guilty for, quote, "doing nothing."

So if those things came up for you, yes, that's very normal. Us humans do not like idleness. We talked about that a while back with our Episode on idleness aversion. [I] Love that little term. I'll put the link in the show notes to that Episode. So, we are wired to engage physically, emotionally, cognitively. We are wired to do enough; usually more than enough...

[00:02:01] Henry Emmons, MD: Yeah, I was gonna say, hahaha.

[00:02:03] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Right? Just naturally. Our system wants inputs; wants to feel productive; that we're building connections and gaining mastery. It's all just naturally part of us. But for what we're talking about in this Element of Enoughness and doing enough, we sometimes raise that natural wiring with all these extra pressures and expectations. And we can attach our doing to our worth, and the kind of doing that others see. Others see us as busy, busy, busy; always working, always achieving, always on the ball, and we stake our worth on that.

[00:02:54] Henry Emmons, MD: There's one thing you said, Aimee, that really jumped out at me, haha, and it's the word emails. Checking your emails, just in case.

[00:03:06] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Just — just in case. Hahaha.

[00:03:08] Henry Emmons, MD: And I bet a lot of people can relate to that.

[00:03:12] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Absolutely.

[00:03:13] Henry Emmons, MD: I think my life changed forever when we started to communicate primarily through emails. Then it's possible to be reached all day, every day, without even the effort that a phone call takes. It seemed as though everyone's expectations changed from being available from 9:00 to 5:00, or whatever, to being available all the time. And that made it feel like work is never done; there's always more. And to this day, I might actually clear my inbox entirely — this happens once in a while, I know, I know, it's a good feeling — doesn't happen very much, but it feels so good— and it lasts about 10 minutes. And then I'll check it again 'cause I — you know, I gotta check [my] email and, you know, I don't want things to pile up because that's when it really gets hard, and there's always something new that has to be attended to. This is not a unique experience to me, I realize that. And text messaging has just taken it to a new level, maybe, 'cause of the speed at which we are expected to respond.

I am not a Luddite. I embrace many aspects of technology, I really do. But what I observe in myself, and what I think I see in my friends and family, is that this puts us into a state of more or less constant alertness. We are constantly scanning for something important, something critical, perhaps. Which, you know, could happen. Something really, really important could come through, and so we are always vigilant, you know? And a notification comes across the screen, and there's just this impulse — hard to resist impulse — to check it out and deal with it right away. It feels as if we've invited more and more tasks into our lives, and we have lost the ability to screen out what's not truly important.

Bottom line, I think we have trained ourselves to react immediately to the relentless drumbeat of more. I think that's one of the true appeals of mindfulness [practice] because it emphasizes being rather than doing. But wow, there's so much pulling at us in this regard, it's no wonder we are all so tired.

[00:06:02] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah. I've been craving, like, getting a beeper. That's what I want. I wanna get rid of my phone...

[00:06:09] Henry Emmons, MD: Oh man, I started working when we still used beepers.

[00:06:12] Aimee Prasek, PhD: That'd be great. The only message you can get is, like, what you can spell upside down with numbers or something. Haha.

[00:06:18] Henry Emmons, MD: Hahaha. Yeah.

[00:06:20] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Ah, yeah, we'll see where technology takes us. It might be back to the beeper, and we — maybe we'd all be a little more gentler on ourselves. I mean, 150 years ago — maybe 175 or so actually — but news, messages, took weeks to reach across the country. Weeks. And it was handled by, you know, people walking, or ships, or horses; carriages, maybe pigeons. This is new territory for us in our human existence, and absolutely keeps us in a more heightened state of surveillance. It is exhausting.

It's almost laughable, then, when someone emails us on a Friday, and then Monday we respond with, "I'm so sorry for the delayed response." Three days. I mean, again — weeks to get across the country. And then weeks to get the message back. It would take you six weeks to get back the message of the person saying, "Sorry I was so late in my response," if they responded immediately. It's wild. We are expecting so much of ourselves and each other here.

We've gotten into perfectionism some in the last few Episodes. We highlighted those three types of perfectionism that Hewitt and Flett identified: other-oriented, socially-prescribed, and self-oriented.

Maybe self-oriented is kind of the most obvious one we think about when it comes to perfectionism. It's the kind of perfectionism that we place on ourselves, where we have those punishing, self-directed expectations or standards, and this kind of intense drive to be perfect and avoid failure. You know, feeling like we're never doing enough. That might fall pretty well here perhaps, although all three of those types of perfectionism come to play. And even though it's called self-oriented perfectionism, again, we're not operating in a vacuum. We're not just trying to be perfect so that we can make ourselves proud. Perfectionism does not function like that. And so responding at any other time than immediately to these rapid messaging platforms can get our brain going with all kinds of stuff, like, "What if they think I'm lazy? What if they think I'm scattered, or I don't have my stuff together?" We write a whole lot of these stories around these other characters who must be judging us, and how they're going to see the worst in us, and so often they don't see the worst in us. So often they're not even looking at us. They're trying to clean out their email box to get it down to zero. And they're not looking at us — not because they don't care, right? — they're just kind of soaked in those same predicaments that we are.

[00:09:20] Henry Emmons, MD (2): So perfectionism, to say a little more about that, I think that that usually starts in childhood. You know, we grow up learning that certain performances, certain achievements, earn us the love and approval that we all crave. A good report card means a parent is proud. Success means we matter. Fitting in, looking right, saying the right thing, these become the price of admission to belonging. And then we carry that forward into adulthood. How could we not? We internalize the message, "I am worthy if I accomplish enough; if I perform well enough; if I don't fail."

But there's a problem with this, and this connects directly to this topic of enoughness. Perfectionism is a losing game because the standard is always moving. [As] soon as you hit that goal, there's a higher one. You succeed at something and it wasn't actually enough. There is always another rung on the ladder, and I think that's why it's so exhausting. I think that's why people often show up in therapy, or to see me, because they're so burned out. Even though they're successful by every external measure, they so often feel as if they're failing.

[00:10:47] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yes. A really interesting pushback, I think, to perfectionism is thinking about success. I — so I think there's this idea that these top high-achievers, ultra-successful folks, got to where they are because of their perfectionism. Interestingly, there is good evidence that they likely got to that, quote, "success" in spite of it, or at least no thanks to it. Related — there's talks about maladaptive, or adaptive, perfectionism [suggesting] that perfectionism can be adaptive, that it can enhance performance, or success, or whatever. Again, I think it's unrelated. A meta-analysis from 2018 looked at perfectionism and job performance. The title of the study was, _Is Perfect Good_? Which I just love. What a great question that we should ask more often. But they teased apart perfectionism into excellence-seeking and failure- avoiding, and they found that excellence-seeking — so you could say that would be more of the adaptive perfectionism- they found that the excellence-seeking showed a weak, inconsistent relationship with performance. And it really depended on how performance was measured. So it was a really precarious, small relationship with a bunch of disclaimers.

And then failure-avoiding perfectionism did not predict improvements in performance. A more recent 2025 meta-analysis from Bellum and colleagues found the same thing, but maybe even hedged more, saying that the overall relationship between perfectionism and performance was inconclusive. So the real clear finding is that this failure-avoidance side of perfectionism, where we're trying to look perfect for fear of being called out, or found out, or whatever — that has moderate to large associations with anxiety, depression, and burnout.

And the other thing about perfectionism: those high expectations, so, like the excellence-seeking perfectionism that was referenced in those studies — it does not have to be associated with the kinds of perfectionistic trappings we've been getting into over these last few Episodes. So let me say that more clearly here. You can strive for greatness. You can have high expectations. You can work really hard. And that's very different from believing that you have to be perfect, and that if you don't meet those high standards that your worth is at stake, or that you are not enough if you don't hit perfect.

[00:13:50] Henry Emmons, MD: Hmm. Yeah, I think that's important, Aimee, 'cause it gives us permission to stop; to say, "The thing I thought would make me better is actually making things worse." And the research really seems to show that. And notice what the real connection is. Perfectionism predicts anxiety, depression, and burnout. It does not predict better performance. It predicts suffering, really; [it] might even cause suffering. So when you're sitting there at midnight reviewing your work for the third time, trying to make it perfect because you're terrified of being found out, you're not being diligent. You're being — you're not being professional, you're hurting yourself. And most likely, your work isn't any better for it.

[00:14:39] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah. Yeah, I hope we're driving the point home that we often push ourselves too hard, and push others too hard as well. And that doesn't take away from personal responsibility, or drive, or ambition. All of that can exist. Those things can be separate from perfectionism. I love personal responsibility. In fact, I can be a real jerk about it in ways that surprise me. So this is not about shirking responsibility. This is about realizing that doing enough is enough. I think we've fallen so hard for this, doing enough trance that we as individuals take more blame and responsibility than we should, oftentimes for what is out of our control, for example, or we surrender because the system is stacked against us.

Let's take burnout, for example. Dr. Christina Maslach is someone who really pioneered the "burnout" term, really, and the research here. She pointed out six areas that play a role in the development of burnout. They are: work overload, lack of control, insufficient rewards, breakdown of community, absence of fairness, and value conflicts.

So that first one, work overload, is definitely about doing too much, just like, clocked hours and overflowing plates. But those other ones, they have nothing to do with us doing too much. I think this is really important because, again, we are wired to work hard, to engage, to take in information, to work with it, to use our brains and bodies in ways that feel productive, or connecting, or generative. The rest of that stuff that leads to burnout has a lot to do with things much deeper than just those logged hours.

So Maslach likes to use [an] analogy of a canary in a coal mine. So if a bird stopped singing or collapsed, it wasn't because the bird wasn't resilient enough, Maslach says. It's a sign that something is wrong in the mine. So we are the canaries. And what is happening in the mine? There's your mine at work: does it ignore those other factors of burnout and just tells you to fly faster and farther, and completely disregards the value of, you know, your colleagues, the employees? [Do] they just promise you that if you work harder, you could fly around this crappy mine.

And then how about the other mines that you fly around in? How do they support, or suffocate, your enoughness? I think those most toxic kind of mines are built by these feelings of not being enough, and we expect ourselves to be able to fly in there. And some of those mines have been built for us, and we're expected to fly in there, too. So yes, you are a canary who is part of a canary community, who can fly, and build nests, and forage, and care for yourself and others — all those pieces of your resilience, and your responsibility, and your ways of connecting, and doing enough. And we can all work together to clean up some of those mines that are taking us down.

[00:18:22] Henry Emmons, MD: Mm-hmm. I love that reminder that there's something wrong with the mine. It reframes this whole thing. The canary isn't weak, the mine is toxic. It reminds me, too, that a canary doesn't belong in a coal mine. We've collaborated in creating our personal mine, a dark space where our worth is entirely dependent on what we produce, what we achieve, or what others can see. That's a toxic environment, so it's no wonder that we're depleted. But we have to see what's going on in order to find hope in this metaphor. If the problem isn't the bird, then the solution isn't to make yourself stronger or tougher. The solution is to change the mine that we've created, or to get out of it.

[00:19:21] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah, you really have to see what's going on. I think it's important to note that.

So if you're feeling really burned out, stuck in this doing too much, one way to really see what is going on is to practice some psychological detachment, which does kind of sound like a bad thing, but it is absolutely not in this case.

Sabine Sonnentag and Charlotte Fritz have done some really interesting work with this, and their research consistently finds that people who mentally detach during off-hours of work report less exhaustion and more energy the next day, compared to folks who are technically off but who are mentally rehearsing all the problems that are coming up the next day, that are checking emails just in case. And I think we all know this, you know, we can be at home and thinking only about work, and just never feel like we've had a day off, and you just do not get restored the same way. So, you know, in our Experiment we'll actually work a little bit with this, practicing this psychological detachment.

So, rest is your right; it's your biological need, and in this culture of side hustles, and grindsets, and optimization constantly, it is essential.

Or as Tricia Hersey notes, "Rest is resistance." It's what will fight some of those toxic mines.

[00:21:02] Henry Emmons, MD: Rest is resistance. I really like that.

[00:21:05] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Isn't that good? Yes.

[00:21:06] Henry Emmons, MD: Choosing to rest is choosing to say, "My worth isn't measured by what I produce. I'm enough even when I'm doing nothing, and sometimes doing nothing is the best thing I can do." This reminds me of a quote I just love: "Sometimes I sits and think, and sometimes I just sits." I find that funny to put it in such simple terms, and it's necessary to put it in such simple terms, and for us to remember it.

[00:21:43] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah, so to help you just sits, again, in that Experiment we'll work on sitsing — sitting. We'll work on sitting and some of that psychological detachment.

So you can head to JoyLab.coach to see how to access those Experiments if you haven't yet joined us. So to close our time today, we're gonna just sit and soak in this wisdom, again from author, and I think — Tricia Hersey — I think she also calls herself "The Nap Bishop," which I just love. We need more bishops fully focused on napping, and sitsing, and resting. Here's what she wrote: "Rest is not a reward or luxury reserved for those who make a certain amount of money. Rest is a right. Rest is our divine right, and no capitalist agenda can have access to it."

[00:22:48] Thanks for joining us!: Thank you for listening to the Joy Lab podcast. If you enjoy today's show, visit JoyLab.coach to learn more about the full Joy Lab program. Be sure to rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Please see our terms for more information.

285. Why Doing Enough Is Enough + Why Perfectionism Predicts Burnout, Depression, & Anxiety, Not Performance

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