286. It's OK to Be Wrong: Releasing Perfectionism & Building the Skill of Knowing Enough

September 16, 2026

What does it means to know enough, and why do so many of us have our sense of self-worth tangled up with the need to appear certain, informed, and never wrong? The common obstacles of perfectionism, yearning for power and to feel "special," along with anxiety are fueled by a world of constant information, public scrutiny, and the subtle pressure to prove our intelligence. It makes a tough environment to come back to the wisdom Socrates shared 2,500 years ago: real wisdom lives in knowing what you don't know.

The good news: getting comfortable with being wrong is a practice, not a personality trait. And the more you do it (starting small and safe), then the more your nervous system learns that doubt isn't dangerous.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

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Sources and Notes for Our Element of Enoughness:

Related Joy Lab Episodes:
- Ep. 215: Are You Curious to Learn or Confirm?
- Ep. 285: Why Doing Enough Is Enough + Why Perfectionism Predicts Burnout, Depression, & Anxiety, Not Performance
- Ep. 284: Having Enough: Why Acquiring More Will Never Fill the Hole in Your Self-Worth
- Ep. 283: You Are Enough: The Science and Practices of Enoughness
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Lynn Twist's Book: The Soul of Money

Questions this episode was made for:

Q: Why do I feel like I have to know everything and never be wrong... and how do I stop?

A: This episode traces the drive to perform knowledge back to things like anxiety about judgment and the desire for specialness, along with the amygdala hijack that makes being wrong feel like a survival threat, and offers a practical strategy: exposure. Practice being wrong in small, safe ways until your nervous system recalibrates and realizes it isn't catastrophic.

Q: Can you actually be too certain? Isn't confidence a good thing?

A: Being too certain can be detrimental. This episode unpacks the differences between genuine knowledge, intellectual humility, and the performance of certainty for reasons outside of genuine knowledge.

Key moments:

[00:30] Setting the scene: Athens, 2,500 years ago — a friend asks the Oracle of Delphi who is the wisest person in the city

[02:30] Socrates' conclusion: maybe he was wiser because he knew what he didn't know, and didn't shy away from that unknowing; kept asking questions

[03:30] Intellectual humility: holding your beliefs loosely, staying curious, genuinely believing you might be wrong

[04:00] The Enoughness layer: the belief that you have to prove your knowledge to be worthy; knowing more makes you enough

[05:00] It's exhausting to feel like you need to know all the answers, to be right all the time — and none of us can actually succeed at it

[05:30] Two drivers: anxiety (fear of being judged for being wrong) and the desire for power or certainty as protection from vulnerability

[07:00] The desire for specialness: inflating self-esteem through the performance of knowing it all

[07:30] Research on narcissism and conspiratorial thinking: conspiracy theories offer the feeling of uniqueness — "I know something you don't"

[10:00] Henry: a small pitch for narcissism — a little bit isn't bad; we all want to feel special sometimes; full-blown narcissists wouldn't be listening to this anyway

[11:00] The belonging need: we don't have to stand out to belong, but we do need to be seen as worthy of inclusion — so we avoid sticking our neck out and being wrong in front of others

[11:30] Social media amplifies this: anything put out publicly can be validated or challenged — rarely challenged without feeling diminished

[14:00] The internet requires a new kind of resilience and emotional regulation we haven't trained before in human history — much of which is what Joy Lab works on

[15:30] Being wrong is so often worse in our heads than in real life — especially when we're willing to admit it; humility actually strengthens connection

[17:30] Henry: when the fear of being wrong tips into clinical anxiety or mood problems — perfectionism creates a downward spiral

[18:00] The amygdala hijack: the midbrain can't distinguish between a perceived threat (being wrong in front of others) and a real physical threat — fight or flight activates as though lives are at stake

[18:30] How to get out: exposure — practice being wrong in small, safe ways; when your nervous system learns it isn't catastrophic, it recalibrates

[20:30] Good news: we have many opportunities every day to practice being wrong — the more you check in, the more you notice them

[21:00] The Experiment for this episode works on getting more comfortable with being wrong

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:05] Henry Emmons, MD: Hello, I'm Henry Emmons, and welcome back to Joy Lab.

[00:00:09] Aimee Prasek, PhD: And I'm Aimee Prasek. So we are in our Element of Enoughness, and we are talking about knowing enough today.

So let's start actually by placing ourselves about 2,500 years ago in Athens with Socrates, As the story goes, a friend of Socrates visited the Oracle of Delphi, the most famous fortune teller in the ancient world, and asked her a question: "Oracle, who is the wisest person in Athens?"

The Oracle said, "Socrates." And when the friend told Socrates the news, Socrates was genuinely confused. he hardly knew a thing. He was on this path of truth-seeking, asking questions, learning, and had come to find out at that point that he hadn't figured anything concrete out yet. In his mind, there was just no way that he was the wisest. So he decided to go out and find out more [about] what the Oracle might have meant, or prove the Oracle wrong.

And so Socrates went out to all of these folks in Athens, all of the smartest folks. The politicians, the poets, the business owners, craftspeople, whoever had a reputation for being smart — and who also thought they were smart — and who then might be the wisest; who would know the most stuff, and who could even answer the question of what was the purpose of life. And what he discovered was this: They all thought they knew things they didn't actually know. And they were confident, they were certain, and they were completely wrong on so many things. And it was after talking to all these folks that Socrates realized that maybe he was wiser than everyone else because he knew what he didn't know, and didn't shy away from that unknowing. And, you know, amidst that uncertainty that he would hold — that unknowing — he continued to ask questions and to seek.

So, the story also goes that this was not a helpful exercise for Socrates because he essentially went around Athens telling all these folks with power, "You're not wise. You don't know what you think you know." — part of why I think he was sentenced to death, but — he was really pressing for something called intellectual humility, and we talked about that some Episodes ago.

Intellectual humility is the willingness to hold your own knowledge, your beliefs, loosely; to stay curious, to say and to really believe, "I might be wrong." And so that intellectual humility is related to what we're getting into today for sure. Plus, there's another layer we're looking at when it comes to Enoughness, and it's around this belief that is so common, and so hard to avoid — that you have to prove your knowledge; you have to know more than others. And that by knowing more, then you are worthy, or more worthy; that you are enough.

[00:03:45] Henry Emmons, MD: Hmm. Yes. I think there is a self-worth angle on this, isn't there? You know, and that probably starts at a young age, I think. For most of us, learning — if we remember our early years in school — learning didn't have a lot to do with taking risks and making mistakes. That wasn't usually held up as the way to learn. So there was more [of] a sense of failure attached to getting things wrong rather than feeling like, " Wow, I failed spectacularly, and I learned so much from that, and it was fun. So I'm gonna really put myself out there next time I get a chance." You know? That's not how people responded when they were young.

So we were rewarded, I think, for being smart and for getting it right. And I think it's exhausting to feel like you need to know all the answers; to be right all of the time. It is exhausting. And even so, none of us can actually succeed at it. The sheer effort of it is exhausting, not to mention what it takes out of us to guard ourselves; to try to protect ourselves all the time. So with all that, why would we do it? And I think it comes down to one of two things, and maybe both.

For most of us, I think this is driven by anxiety. Uncertainty makes us uncomfortable, and if we say something wrong, if we make a mistake, then we fear that we're gonna be judged for it. And then a second issue that I'm just kind of playing with in my mind is power. A lot of folks still believe that knowledge is power, or that certainty can protect us from feeling vulnerable, and so we try to avoid vulnerability. Though I think vulnerability is actually a superpower because it's what allows us to let more in, to risk more, to have more inner freedom. Plus, if we can stop trying so hard to protect ourselves, it frees up a lot of energy that we can then direct toward other things.

[00:06:22] Aimee Prasek, PhD: The belief that certainty can protect us from being vulnerable. Ooh. I resonate with that.

[00:06:32] Henry Emmons, MD: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:33] Aimee Prasek, PhD: I think a lot of us do. It's a really good — certainty can protect us from being vulnerable. We fall into that myth. And as you said, we can never know it all so vulnerability is kind of the only option, maybe is what I'm hearing from you a bit, Henry? If we don't wanna fight all our lives toward an impossible goal of certainty, or fall into the trance of perceived certainty that keeps us kind of blinded from reality, then we just have to get more comfortable with that vulnerability of being wrong. Oof. It's hard.

You noted those two reasons why we do this, anxiety and power. I think you're right on that, power — maybe, like, a specific type of power — and right on the anxiety as well, but along with power, I think this links up — the desire to feel special; to feel better than others, right? So we try to inflate our self-esteem through the performance of knowing it all.

Related — there's some really interesting research on how narcissism is associated with conspiratorial thinking, and some interpretations of this are that conspiracy theories offer this feeling of uniqueness. Like, "I have this piece of knowledge that you don't have. I know something that you don't know. And that makes me in the know, and special, and super smart, and unique, and enough."

And I don't think you need to be a narcissist or believe in a bunch of conspiracy theories to feel the same. There is a really common experience here, this drive for others to see us as smarter than others. As you said, Henry, we can really believe that knowledge is power. And there's some truth to that, but inflated confidence about stuff we don't even know seems to be more of what's giving power right now, or throughout history. It's not knowledge, it was this — it's this kind of empty confidence [or] can be this convincing scam for a short period that garners power.

And so knowledge can turn into, "I wanna prove my intelligence; prove it to you, have you see it, and be impressed by me. See me, deem me worthy." Which I think then actually makes sense why knowing — quote, "knowing" — can become surprisingly separate from accuracy or facts. What Socrates discovered, right? It can have more to do with performance, and this drive to be accepted by someone or some group. And I think this is subtly different than what we talked about in the past Episodes with intellectual humility. When we're talking about knowing enough and Enoughness, then there's this extra layer that we're getting into. We realize that we don't know it all, and here's the important part: that's okay. Amidst that, you are still worthy. You are still enough.

[00:09:55] Henry Emmons, MD: Yeah, let me just add a couple of things to what you just said, Aimee, and then I wanna try to think about what is behind this; what I believe to be behind this.

So first, I wanna make just a little pitch for narcissism. I know it sounds weird, but a little — a little narcissism isn't a bad thing. Let me me say more about that, 'cause I think it can even be healthy. Now, I am quite sure that there are no full-blown narcissists listening to this right now, haha, 'cause why would they? Hahaha.

[00:10:36] Aimee Prasek, PhD: They would be bored to tears with this. Haha.

[00:10:39] Henry Emmons, MD: Right.

[00:10:40] Aimee Prasek, PhD: They know it all already. It's fine.

[00:10:41] Henry Emmons, MD: Right. But most of us have a little narcissism woven in because all of us wanna feel special, at least a little special, from time to time.

And that brings me to my second point, and we've touched on this before. A sense of belonging is important to every one of us. I think it's an essential need. It's not far down that list from air, water, and food, honestly. In order to belong, we don't necessarily have to stand out. In fact, standing out might get in the way of belonging in some cases. But we do need to be seen as worthy of being included. And none of us — none of us — really wanna risk that by sticking our necks out, and maybe showing that we're not smart enough to belong to this or that group.

So this effort to know things, to show some degree of certainty or mastery — I think it's an unconscious way to prove ourselves worthy; to be validated, to belong. And as we talk about from time to time, social media has a way of amplifying this. You become so public and the stakes feel so much higher. Anything you put out there can be validated or challenged, and often it's some of both. But it is rare to be publicly challenged and not to feel at least somewhat diminished by that.

[00:12:23] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yes. Thank you, Henry, for calling out some important things.

First, thank you for offering a little grace for just a wee bit of narcissism, because I have a wee bit of narcissism, absolutely. I like a conspiratorial thought — going down those rabbit trails every now and again, and a lot of other reasons why, you know, narcissism can creep into my existence. As it is for all of us. It's just not a black and white thing. And when we're conscious and awake, it can show up — like you said, I think — here and there in some positive ways. Especially when we can name it, then it can be really helpful, right? If it's sneaking around the back corner, then there might be some issues.

[00:13:09] Henry Emmons, MD: Yeah. Trust me, it can go too far. Hahaha.

[00:13:13] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yes. There's a middle road.

[00:13:16] Henry Emmons, MD: I think we all know that.

[00:13:17] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah. Maybe the middle-road of narcissism is even a little bit more toward the less, like it's not quite down the middle.

[00:13:25] Henry Emmons, MD: I agree. Haha.

[00:13:26] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Yeah. And your note that the stakes can really feel higher; this idea that we fear not knowing — I think it's really important to call out, because public shaming is a thing, as you're highlighting, and we've been doing it for thousands of years. I mean, it didn't just start with Twitter. If we weren't hung, drawn, and quartered in the public square, we could — in the past, we could escape to the next village if we felt it necessary, and start a brand new life, right? There were ways to escape it. So I'm saying, yeah, it's been going on for thousands of years, but we could escape it at times. I think it's different now.

Sorry, side note — my great-grandpa had a whole second family in the next town over. That would never happen, hahaha, I think in the age...

[00:14:20] Henry Emmons, MD: it would be so hard to do that now. Hahaha.

[00:14:22] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Right? You just cannot have another life, another next life. So, you know, I — it's just not possible today. The internet creates a global public record of all our mistakes — or our second lives — and dealing with that requires, I don't know, maybe a new kind of resilience or emotional regulation that we haven't trained before in our human history, perhaps; much of which we train here at Joy Lab.

So this, kind of, public shaming — like this 24/7 global shaming can easily highlight the pressure to know everything; to not make a mistake. It can really push us even more into that space of acquiring information. Even if it's not accurate, just acquiring a mass of information, grasping in an effort to confirm rather than learn, so that we can defend ourselves when the public shaming starts. So we dig in. Not to learn, or deepen our knowledge, [or] expand our universe in nourishing ways, but [as] a kind of fear-driven mission to defend ourselves from being challenged, or from being essentially hung, drawn, and quartered in the age of the internet. And I'm not saying we shouldn't have forms of community responsibility and reckoning, but we all know that's, like, not what's happening on these platforms. So this is new territory for us creatures, and to offer some grace for that, I think, is really important. But I used the phrase just a bit ago, and we've used it before, are you curious to learn or confirm?

Again, that curiosity to confirm, it's actually pretty comfortable. That's where we just gather that ammunition for what we already believe. And then curious to learn is where the actual growth happens, and it requires all the hard stuff, like being willing to be wrong in front of other people, which is uncomfortable. But again, that's where so much of this growth happens. And actually, so often, being wrong is way worse in our heads than it is in real life, even today, especially when we're willing to admit that we're wrong. So that humility actually strengthens our ability to connect, and people see us in a more positive light when we can be real about our knowledge.

So there's a reality here of a pretty brutal, scary, consequence of, like, getting globally called out. And many times it's based on impossible standards of perfectionism, or at least ignoring context, you know — pressure to be perfect in every situation. And even though the evidence is so clear that getting more comfortable with being wrong and wearing that on your sleeve has some really big benefits, this pressure of perfectionism, the desire to avoid public shaming, trying to get some worth based on what we know, it is very strong. It is hard to resist.

[00:17:41] Henry Emmons, MD: Mm-hmm. [It's] hard to resist, and I think that what you're pointing to is where — where this can kind of tip over into a real mental health challenge. Perfectionism can create a downward spiral which amplifies this fear of being wrong, and it can create some kind of clinical anxiety or mood problem.

You know, the midbrain — which includes the amygdala, and it regulates our response to threat — it's actually not super sophisticated. And it can't tell the difference between a perceived threat, like maybe being wrong in front of others, and a real threat — to our physical safety, perhaps. This is what is often called an amygdala hijack, where something our brain makes up or misperceives takes us right down that path of fight or flight, as though our lives are at stake.

So how do you get out of this and prevent it from coming back? How do the same kind of things that we can do for other problems, like public speaking — how can we apply that here? I think it's similar. You continually practice doing whatever it is you're afraid of until it no longer creates such a fear response. So in this case, you can practice being wrong. First in very small, safe ways. And when you realize — deeply realize — that it is not catastrophic to be wrong, then your nervous system recalibrates and you can take on harder things, on a bigger stage.

And I think there's a huge relief to this. When you can admit you don't know something, or that you were wrong about something, and you realize, "It was a lot easier to do that than I thought it would be," there is a palpable relief. And then let me just add that this practice of being okay with not knowing, or with being wrong, is really good for relationships. Hahaha.

[00:19:59] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Oh God, yeah. Haha.

[00:20:01] Henry Emmons, MD: Haha. Right? It is a wonderful thing, by the way, to model for young kids. If they can learn that being wrong is okay, you know — from you, and they can see you maybe even apologizing for, you know, what you said and you were wrong about, that's gonna give them such a leg up on healthy relationships.

[00:20:25] Aimee Prasek, PhD: Mm. Yeah, with themselves and others. Absolutely.

Yeah. There's this, like, exposure practice to being wrong. And good news, we have so many opportunities every day to try it out, at least I find, the more I check in on this. There's many opportunities. Continually practicing that comfort with being wrong creates a new pattern in our brain, as you're saying, Henry — [in] our behavior, our lives, our relationships.

Our Experiment for this Episode, for the practice of getting more comfortable with being wrong, is super helpful to support you as you try this out. So be sure to check that out or head to JoyLab.coach to learn more about those Experiments. And next Episode, we'll kinda sum this up, I think, as we talk about being enough. So I'm excited for that.

To close us today, I wanna share some concise wisdom from Voltaire that I just love. it is: "Doubt is an uncomfortable condition, but certainty is a ridiculous one."

[00:21:42] Thanks for joining us!: Thank you for listening to the Joy Lab podcast. If you enjoy today's show, visit JoyLab.coach to learn more about the full Joy Lab program. Be sure to rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Please see our terms for more information.

286. It's OK to Be Wrong: Releasing Perfectionism & Building the Skill of Knowing Enough

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